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Boy, these people are something special!

You know, while researching the cars, I read a lot about dealing with car dealers. People generally have a negative attitude towards them and the whole car buying experience, and you can find tons of information on how to avoid their scams, how to lower the price, how to negotiate with them, what to tell them, etc, etc. An excellent website to inform yourself on all aspects of car buying is Car Buying Tips: (http://www. carbuyingtips. com/). Now with all the great info and details I learned from various sources, I still thought that generally the prevailing attitude is not realistic. I mean, you almost get a feeling that if you pay anything more than a factory price, you made a bad deal. You can certainly succeed in lowering the price apparently to a large extent, but it is the fact that the dealers have to make money too. Ok, sometimes just selling the car, e. g. to meet their projected numbers, is beneficial to them, and they might give away even the whole of their profit for that sake. But come on, I can consider such situation just a crazy luck, not my goal! Anyway, I think that the current craze about “beating” those prices down to the floor is just as unrealistic and aggressive as the dealer’s craze to take as much money from you as possible.

However, after this buying experience, I lost pretty much any respect and sympathy for the dealers. And I will always advise anyone never to become one. Of course some of them were great examples of normal and pleasant behaviour, but unfortunately I must say that most of them have taken the activity of deceit and aggressiveness to such extent that for an honest and well meaning man the idea of going to a dealership must be repugnant. I very quickly got such a strong feeling of insecurity about everything I was told by them. I think everything was a lie, smaller or bigger. A lot of what I’ve heard I don’t believe, and none of it I trust.

Here are some of the examples, more or less funny, from my recent experience:Systematic approach

I enter a dealership, with the intention of exploring a car that really caught my attention simply by offering all of the basic features I wanted. So I wanted to see it, test drive it, and ask a couple of questions. So I ask the dealer: “I’ve read that the crash test scores for this model are not that good, most are graded 3 out of 5. Now, I know that there are different tests, and you can’t judge simply by the grade. Do you know more details about those tests and the scores? What is tested exactly, and how did they score the cars?”

The answer was: “Yes, yes I know, the scores are not the best possible. I know. But you know — what do they mean really? (And I’m thinking — yes, that is exactly what I asked) You see, a grade of 3 is really not that bad. It’s almost like 4. What is the difference? Almost nothing let me tell you. And also, all of that means something only in most severe crashes!!”

Well, no kidding!! What a thorough explanation. Now I understand and my worries are gone. And what a relief. So, if a car is simply parked on a lot, I shouldn’t worry that it will suddenly open the hood and hit me right in the face! Bonding

A question occurred to me about a car, and I decided to drop by a dealership to ask. My visit was about 10 minutes long — of course we exchanged numbers, I got the brochure and usual stuff. Tomorrow morning, my cell phone rings, I answer and I get this:

- “Hey Michael, Jord here from the dealership. ”

- “Hey Jord, how are you, what’s up?” (I thought he might have just gotten some good used car)

- “Nothing, nothing. . . just wanted to see how are you. ”

Huh. . . If this doesn’t sound as a start of a beautiful friendship I don’t know what does!

Then he goes on:

- “So have you made a decision on which car you want?”

- “No, not really, not yet. I told you I’ll need some time, and I’m not rushing really. ”

- “Ok, tell me, what’s blocking it? Can I help?”

Man, of course you can! Go do something else instead of asking me questions. . . Landing on all four whatever happens

I wasn’t sure about a size of a trunk of one of the models, so on my visit to the dealerships I brought couple of boxes and a cart that I use often to see how they fit into the trunk. Now this was one of the smaller cars, so I wasn’t sure about the trunk size. And I tell the dealer what I’d like to do and he says no problem. So I take out the stuff and he laughs:

- “C’mooon, how can you doubt it — that will fit without a problem. Don’t worry!!”

- “Wait, wait, let me try, I know what I’m talking about. ”

And then I try, and he tries, but it doesn’t go so easy — the cart is a bit long and the boxes a bit high. Separately they go in no problem, but together, not that easy. Finally, he laughs again and remarks:

- “And you really thought ALL OF THAT will fit into this trunk??!!”

Wha. . . ??Get all the money you can

I receive a long talk describing how I should buy the replacement insurance. And the more expensive one (“better” in the jargon), which covers you for a longer time and gives you the value of the new car, rather the amount that you paid. Ok, that is a fine product. Now I also get a long description on how I should absolutely buy a VIN engraving package where they engrave the VIN on all windshields so that the thieves are less likely to steal it (they can’t sell the windshields for parts). It’s about $300. Well, I gave both of these things a good thought, but tomorrow I realized a simple thing: Why do I need two protections? If I get the replacement insurance, and if they are going to give me a new car if mine is stolen, why would I then protect it even more?? Damn, I should also probably buy two cars in case one is stolen after all.

And on top of that, I found on the internet that the engraving kit, very simple to use and apply, can be bought for mere $20. Get all the money you can — again

This one is well-known, and usually titled as a “dealer scam”, but I decided I put it here anyways just as another example.

So I finally decide to buy the car and I arrive to the dealership at around 6:00pm. I expect the process to last about an hour. However, little thing here and there and I end up at the dealership for four hours. I think ok, nobody’s fault, there are simply a lot of things to do and a lot of people to involve — the dealer, finance guy, insurance girl, then the finance guy again, then the manager because there was an error, etc. So, I get the contract with all the figures there, and everything looks fine: all the figures match almost perfectly to mine that I calculated before. Except one thing — $900 of loan life insurance. So I ask:

- “Why is it there? Is that mandatory?”

- “Well, we made such an application to Company’s Finance. ”

- “Ok, but is it mandatory?”

- “We could reapply and see what happens — if you have life insurance elsewhere. ”

Now, you see, I am not too easy to confuse, but it was late and I didn’t want to repeat the whole process again, so I’m thinking: “Ok, I’m going to think about it tomorrow. ” And I let it by. Now good thing was that I had the contract with me (I had to take it home for my wife to sign), so I wasn’t too worried.

Anyhow, in the morning I realize that not only it is not mandatory to have the insurance and that I definitely do not need life insurance elsewhere, but another application without it will certainly go through. And, at that point I sincerely doubted that they need to make another application at all. So I get really angry and I go there and I get the exact same answer again. So I say:

- “Let’s apply again; I am sure the application will go trough. I simply don’t want it and I never wanted it and I never asked for it. And if it doesn’t we’ll see then what we do. ”

And she does the paperwork, and seeing me irritated remarks: “Don’t worry I’m sure it will go trough. ”

Of course it will — and it does. Get on customer’s side — even if you overdo it

One of the dealers was affirming every little thing I said. It got funny and a bit annoying:

He thought that the features I wanted are absolutely the only important features in the car.

He was also in computer business just a few years ago.

The funniest was when we discussed payment options. He told me that leasing is a better option if I want to change the car every couple of years. So I say:

- “You know, I am more the other type of buyer, at least so far. I drive one car for years before I buy a new one, so I probably won’t go with the lease. ”

- “I understand, I completely understand. You know, the worst part of the auto business for me is that you simply have to change the car every 1-2 years. I hate that. If I wasn’t selling cars, I would do the same as you. “

Well, this really made me feel like home. C’mon guys, we just met and will probably never see each other again; don’t do these things. Advertise what you have

This one was not really on the negative side, it was just funny. I went to Subaru and dealers there were actually very cool. They were very cooperative, and without the aggressive edge. And they never called me to push or ask whether I’ve made a decision. They also have a great program where you can take the car for 24hr test drive. I had really a good experience with them.

Anyhow, I told this dealer that I know that their cars use specific technology in their engine that is different from all other cars, and that repairs can be expensive. And he says:

- “Yeah, it’s so called Boxer engine where pistons are opposed horizontally instead of vertically. But we are not the only ones to use it. . . Porsche uses it — you know Porsche Boxster. . . . And some smaller planes. ”

Well, that much for the affordable repairs. . .

Then he also added that it’s an old technology that has been well perfected so far and that I shouldn’t worry really, which was a bit more reassuring. Always fish for customer’s weak spots — even in the dark

Honda was giving rebate and they advertised it everywhere: that was very important sales pitch. Now I come to a dealership, and one of the first things the guy tells me is:

“You know, I’ll tell you one thing: we will give you a good rebate, and it’s Honda’s rebate but most of the dealers won’t even mention it. “

He made it as if he is letting me know a secret, and not only that it isn’t, but it’s all over radio, their website, everywhere. But I might have been uninformed and careless and would think that I’m getting a special deal. Lie like there’s no tomorrow and hope you don’t get caught

I was quite close to buying a car so I called some dealerships inquiring whether they have a certain model and the color on the lot. I told them I don’t want the car to be brought from some other dealership. I want to see the car and get the one I saw. This is because I don’t want to get into whole new set of issues and questions. For example, one dealer told me that they charge extra delivery fee if they bring the car from other dealership, which is by the way ridiculous and perhaps deserves story on its own. It can also happen that the car that arrives is different in some detail than what you wanted, and you already signed the papers. Etc.

So I made sure they know what I want, and then came to one of the dealerships. We chat a bit and then I say:

- “So let me see the car. “

- “Oh, I was afraid you were gonna ask me that. I really don’t know exactly where the car is. “

I laugh: “But I told you I want to see the car before I buy it. “

- “Oh, don’t worry — it’s here, I’m just not sure where. “

- “Ok, I’ll go outside and look for it. “

- “But our lots are really big. “

- “I don’t mind, I have the time. “

- “But they are not really all here — we have two lots a few blocks away. “

I just don’t like arguing that much — in cases like these I give up and simply walk away. A good guy

The positive highlight was a young dealer for which I could quickly tell that he is not (yet) turned his abilities into a deceitful routine — he even gets confused a bit when I ask him a stupid question. To me that is the normal reaction. And when I asked him what he drives, he said: “an old Volvo, you know it’s a really good car. ” I am really sorry that cars he was selling were not suitable for me — I would have been very happy to buy one from him. And I didn’t even feel like negotiation with him at all.

—————————————————————————–

Read the rest on following pages:Part One: Why and What?Part Two: How?Part Three: Models and Makes

I need to buy a new car in the next couple of weeks. I have never bought a new car before, does anyone have any advice for me? The car I am interested in buying is a 2007 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Edition. The msrp is 21,175 with an invoice price of 20,047. What is a reasonable price to offer them? The dealership had at least 20 of them on their lot. I am going to put a good amount of money down, and finance the rest. I would be purchasing from zip code 53005. And for comparison purposes, how do you negotiate a lease? The same way as buying? Thanks for the help!

www.howtobuyacar1.com – This site features the car buying negotiating tips which are essential when you want to buy a car with the best deal. There is a bigger possibility that you will be out-talked by the sales agent. So beforehand, you must be prepared for it.

If you’re thinking about a purchase or just looking for a little advice, this guide can help. The following information will help you begin to research, compare, build, and price new cars quickly and conveniently. In the end, you’ll get better prices on any of the models you are interested in. That means, for example, obtaining multiple quotes, from multiple dealers, before you ever step foot in a dealership. (Of course, you can do it all via the Web. ) Having at least three different quotes during negotiations gives you a distinct advantage. Think of these quotes as a reference point – the difference between a good offer and a bad one.
In less than a decade, buying new cars has become a much easier process via the Internet. There are two types of sites. The first will sell you new cars directly. The second doesn’t sell directly, but will provide referrals to hundreds of the most credible dealers. Both sites, however, are going to save you money. They’ll display invoice, MSRP, options, incentives and rebates clearly. The most credible online resources will have no hidden fees and virtually eliminate the inevitable haggle with salesmen.
But there’s more. The following is a step-by-step breakdown of the entire buying process from beginning to end.
New Car Buying Guide Step One – Research prices online
Search for new cars to determine what average prices are, so you know the difference between good and bad offers. Be sure to do thorough research, so that you’re paying a price near the invoice and never over the average MSRP. Many sites offer invoice pricing as well.
New Car Buying Guide Step Two – Request price quotes
After figuring out fair prices, request free quotes for your favorite new cars from as many credible dealers as possible – you can do this online. Afterwards, the most qualified companies will have their dealer internet sales managers contact you, requesting more details on the new cars you may be interested in purchasing. Request prices with all applicable taxes and charges included (not simply the MSRP).
New Car Buying Guide Step Three – Get your credit report
Your credit score is what is used to determine the APR you’ll pay on your loan. You should get a copy to ensure there are no errors, and that you are receiving the rate you deserve.
New Car Buying Guide Step Four – Get rate quotes
With your FICO score in hand, you should apply to online lenders for the best auto loan rates. Your bank, other banks, other lenders, the dealership, and even your family. Shopping around for financing can save you thousands over the life of your loan.
New Car Buying Guide Step Five – Research insurance companies
You should research insurance companies thoroughly as well. Some specialize in offering plans to people with not-so-good driving records and others (sometimes the same company) offer less expensive plans for drivers with better-than-good driving records.
New Car Buying Guide Step Six – Get insurance rate quotes
Insurance can be expensive, especially if you’ve been unlucky in the past with accidents or citations, but it is necessary precaution. Request quotes from the preferred companies you found, and much like the search for the lowest car price and loan rate quotes, pick the plan that offers the best protection for the most reasonable price.
New Car Buying Guide Step Seven – Figure out your trade-in value
Use Kelly Blue Book to estimate the trade-in or private resale value of your car. This will assist you when you are negotiating the new car price, as the trade in value of your current car will affect the new car price.
New Car Buying Guide Step Eight – Negotiating your new car purchase
Ready to negotiate? With the lowest quote on the make and model you chose from your list of new cars, contact your preferred dealers and see if they’ll beat it – they tend to compete with each other because they want your business. Utilizing the Internet can provide you with hassle-free process of creating a dialogue with dealers. For example, it is a lot easier to stop emailing than it is to walk out of a dealership.
This guide will help speed the entire purchasing process up. And probably, more importantly, save you money.

Getting the best price on your next car just got easier. Just read over the following car buying secrets and put them to good use. 1. The Dealers Real Cost The Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is the price that consumers supposedly are meant to pay. Of course, most know they can do better than that, so they look for the Dealer Invoice Price (usually listed on the sales sheet on the vehicle). They try to get a price close to that. What many people don’t know is that this does not necessarily define the lowest you can go, because it is not the actual dealer cost. In fact, this number is essentially a lie that manufacturers and dealers create to help THEM with negotiations. For a variety of reasons, the dealers real cost is almost always substantially less than this, so keep that in mind. 2. Dealer Incentives and Holdbacks Among the things that lower the dealers true costs are special incentives they are offered by the manufacturer, as well as holdbacks. A holdback is an amount paid to the dealer by the manufacturer upon the sale of a car. Doing it this way (rather than simply selling the cars to the dealer for less, is a way to artificially inflate the cost on paper, which helps with negotiations with “smart” buyers. There are places where you can find out about holdbacks and incentives. Consumers Reports, for example, in addition to having some information about these things in their magazine, also has a service that provides you all of this sort of information about any car you are considering buying. Look for their “New Car Price Service. ” 3. Overpriced Extras Much of the profit on a new car is made from the extras that consumers buy. Some certainly can be worth the price, but others are almost worthless or at least grossly overpriced. Though there are exceptions, as a rule avoid undercoating, rustproofing, fabric protection, windshield etching and extended warranties. 4. Don’t Mention Your Trade In Negotiate everything else before you mention that you have a car to trade in. Otherwise, the dealer may hold out for a higher price on the new car just so he can appear to be offering you a decent price on your trade in. Prior to going to the dealer, look up the value of your existing car in one of the used car price guides (available in your public library or online), so you know what you might get selling it on your own. Take the dealer offer if it is anywhere near this. 5. Buy At The Right Time When is the right time to buy if you want the best price? Certainly you can watch for sales, special manufacturer rebates and such. These can save you hundreds of dollars or more. But one of the lesser known car buying secrets is to shop near the end of the month.  Why? Because many car dealers pay bonuses to employees based on total sales for the month. Towards the end of the month then, the sales people are often trying to meet some goal that might win them a bigger bonus. This gives you more negotiating power. Mention at some point “I might wait until (pick a day that is the first or second of next month) to make a decision. ” You might just see the price come down at that point. 6. Buy Used What is perhaps the most valuable of these car buying secrets, is also a secret of millionaires. Although millionaires may buy more Mercedes or BMWs than Honda Civics, about 40% of them buy these cars used. Why? Because they recognize value. Surveys of repair costs and other data show that a three to four-year-old car costs up to 50% less per mile to own as a new car (less if you are paying cash, because part of the savings is in the interest savings on a lower-priced smaller-loan car). A three year old car should look almost new in any case.  

Product DescriptionThe ultimate how-to manual for car and truck buyers–guerrilla tactics for today’s tough automotive market. This savvy guide provides insider how-to’s for real negotiating leverage, tells how to determine the true wholesale value of a vehicle before talking trade-in, and more. . . . More >>
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In The Driver’s Seat: The New Car Buyer’s Negotiating Bible